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Poster: stilldead77 Date: May 16, 2009 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

"spoon-tapping-on-half-filled-milk-bottles keyboard tone"

Classic, thanks for the laugh tonite.

I think most of them saw their prime shows with brent, just a guess.

Longest stint?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: May 16, 2009 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

As noted on one of my favorite car repair radio talk shows this morning, we've lost most of our WWII vets, many Korean, and lots of Vietnam vets. It also appears as if we've lost many Pig vets and lots of Keith vets as well.

Either they're dead or my contemporaries are too embarrassed to admit they're still listening.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2009 12:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

I was shocked by the Brent over Keith biz.

I thought that early 70s are considered "best" by most everyone, so how does Brent win? Is it they are best then "in spite" of K?

Interesting...

And, of course, I can't really analyze all the others, esp their overall competency and such, but loved TC, don't actually like PP singing, but literally HATED Brent singing...so much so I don't really know if he could play or not...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 16, 2009 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

And that reminds me of another point I would make: Keith only favored us with one semi-lame song: "Let Me Sing Your Blues Away." How many bad songs did Brent inflict upon the setlists? But this was about keyboard playing, so I guess that's off-topic.

WT: don't like Pig's singing?!?!?! *faints, revives*. Not even "Alligator?" Say it aint so... ;)

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: May 16, 2009 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

i'll take pig singing over brent, keith, donna, vince, and phil. brent's backing vocals were great, though. bob's singing in the 70's was passable. i hate bob's singing in the 80's and 90's.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 16, 2009 8:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Pigpen vs. Everybody

Well, if we want to measure the Dead keyboardists by the songs they added....Pigpen didn't write many songs, but what he did contribute was way better than anything of Brent's....and if we add the songs Hunter wrote for him, well, no contest.
And if we measure by who sang the best? I guess that can be debated, but I'd go with Pigpen - not very sweet or harmonious - but blues/r&b was his field, and once he was gone, the attempts by Weir or Brent to do that style were pretty ridiculous. Otherwise, what Brent has going for him is basically the ability to harmonize....and as Donna showed, that wasn't a sure thing....

I'm also puzzled by the comment that Pigpen was "shut out" - I thought it was simply a case of getting too ill to perform. If he'd kept up his health, I can see him carrying on for tour after tour - the piano/organ duo would've been interesting in '73. Then again, it's a little hard to imagine him coming out to do Lovelight after, say, a Weather Report Suite! But the Europe '72 shows indicate where it might have gone - Pigpen doing more on the organ, less of the raunchy routines, writing a few more bluesy ballads like Two Souls perhaps. He was not the same high-energy fellow that he was a year before.

As for the Wake of the Flood material - as it happens, Pigpen did play organ for Stella Blue at his last show:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-06-17.aud.hanno.16470.sbeok.shnf
The first performance of MS Half-Step was at the very next show, so we just missed hearing him on that one. The rest of the album songs weren't done til '73.

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Poster: veblen Date: May 16, 2009 8:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Pigpen vs. Everybody

I am just glad that Europe 72 was as strong of tour for him as it was for the rest of the band...the man with a scythe could have appeared earlier if he wasn't able to make it due to health or worse, performance reasons...

but no, he showcased a couple of new tunes with chinatown shuffle and two souls...plus, mr charlie and next time you see me are usually strong tunes...

I am listening to 72-05-26 and just finished two souls and it was first rate...next time you see me was equally good...

as noted I haven't read much on the subject, but are some of the things he is blamed for, the same things that the band wanted him to do at the time. Did they want him to be the raunchy stage presence that many don't seem to like. Or at least did they push that pigpen prior to him losing some control/focus. similar to vince being blamed on the type of keys that he played... ok, no more wondering...back to london...

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2009 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

Oh yeah...a good Alligator or Operator...but the mysognist raps really bug me...boring too. Talk about always the same. OK, some White Trash crowd interaction I suppose, but come on. Really sorta of pathetically juvenile when counter posed with Hunter lyrics, don't you think?

I mean when you think of the shit Hunter was writing and they were singing, and then you think of what PP did on stage...I dunno.

Am I gonna get it for saying this?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: May 16, 2009 5:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

You should probably get it, but no question that the talent of the songwriting teams spelled a divergent course rather than assimilating Pigs stuff. Just as divergent was the creativity found in mind altering drugs versus the suppressing nature of alcohol in large volumes. Another critical element was the level of musicianship displayed by Garcia, Lesh and even Weir surpassing Pig's basic chops long before he gave up the ghost.

While I think pig made great contributions to Workingman's, Skullfuck and Yerp 72, I can't imagine him having the depth or sophistication that came with Wake of the Flood, some of which must have been in the works while he was still alive.

Finally, Garcia and Weir showed their stripes by shutting out Pig in the end. He had clearly become excess baggage that they no longer had the time or patience for.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: May 16, 2009 5:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

pig was simply a blues singer. to expect him to be more than that is foolish. i can't imagine the early dead without him.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: May 16, 2009 6:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

noone shut pig out. he got sick and died. the real tragedy was letting donna jean into the fold.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 16, 2009 7:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

Naw, you won't get it...just take yo hands outta yo pockets! hee hee... it's not like you're just saying "Pig Sucks!": you have your reasons and they are valid. I always thought any misogyny was counter-balanced by Pig's self-deprecating humor ("I've been waiting for you to reach over for the last half-hour..."), but I see your point that the mid-60's machismo swagger doesn't gel well with the late 60's-early 70's "get-in-your-head-and-leave-your-body-behind" attitude.

Now, let's hear Pig & Keith together, kicking ass with the twin piano/organ attack on some "Sugaree":

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-05-18.sbd.miller.79057.sbeok.flac16


This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-05-17 02:10:34

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2009 8:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

Well, you do indeed learn something everyday...I had no idea about all the complexities touched on above as to who played what, when, etc., etc.

Cool.

Status report: got thru the Ark April shows of 69, now focusing on Avalon, and the 4th has a great DDHNM, and Eleven, in which you CAN hear TC doing some excellent things with his part (as LiA noted, does seem it's rare you get to hear him, the way you could PP on the TFTV OOne counterplay with Jerry's leads).

The 4th has some bad cuts, but so far, I really like the sound, and just haven't given it the attn I should have. Jerry is really energetic, doing some different sounding leads on a few of the songs...DDHNM is fine, damn fine. His voice is good that night too...

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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: May 16, 2009 9:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

I'm not paying attention to this thread.. ; ) So I won't see you're *Pigpen Bashing* .... again.

I guess if I were to comment I'd just say that you have to consider the source. Pig wasn't an intellectual by any means. He was as blue collar and bluesy.. <--(if that's a word.) ...as it gets.

That's what I love about him. I identify with his loseresque aura. TSIC is my favorite PP song. If I want to get into mindphukn blazing excrutiating jams I do not look to pig. I look to TC or Keith an Jerry with a little Phil on da side. Not to leave out Bobby as his place is important but not crucial to blowing my cerebral cortex.

What I get from pig is a deeper thing. I guess it resonates with my soul sickness. It has more to do with simplistic things like *gut feelings* and not mindful spacey imagery.
Brent is ok... I do tire of his tinky, tink, tink.. sound tho...just a personal preference.

I think it can be a very individual thing really. It's whatever resonates with you and that I believe is very subjective. For me it's whatever makes me feel joy or sadness. If it makes me reflective or inspired. And what ever "sounds", be it lyrical, notes, or a thumping baseline, correlate with my personal experience in life (this life or some other)is personal to me and may not effect another in the same manner.
Dig what I'm saying ?

That's all I got Mr. Tell.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 17, 2009 6:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

Oh yeah, that's why I am so conflicted about him...I love what he does with Operator, and Easy Wind. Those are songs that have real soul to them...I love how he plays on some songs, like I am always babbling about, and then I am infuriated by the repetition on a DS...I love, absolutely love how he has his low voice, and with such charm, chats with Jerry during MidHr...I would much prefer him doing these things...The whole, "do you wanna FUCK?" aspect, is, I dunno, just sort of demeaning...I was there, knew lots and lots of casualties of "free love" (almost all women), and it just gets a tad old...most other blues individuals focus more on self analysis, loss, etc...

But, I am defn conflicted about the man.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 17, 2009 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

Is your vision being clouded by the clarity of hindsight? It is easy for us to look back and cringe at some of those comments, however we are looking through 2009's eyes. Pig didn't have the "benefit" of living in a PC world. PC as in politically correct and personal computer (although i prefer a mac!) as we have 2009's technology so we can listen to every thing they said and played. It also seems unlikely that the boys were thinking about the ramifications of this back in 1969 while PP was rapping about playing pocket pool every other night. I love when he sang the blues songs and do enjoy a lovelight now and again. I just accept that his act is dated and might have been perfectly appropriate at that time but is no longer so.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 17, 2009 8:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

No doubt, no doubt...but, nonetheless...some of it might have been just playing the part (biker, tough guy, sex fiend, whatever), but take a modern example: the violence of many Rap songs is apparent now, etc...not that I am saying they're comparable, but you get the idea. I dislike these modern songs for the same reason of the underlying message they send, and not just for my kids.

Not a big deal--certainly, you would have to go by his behavior at some level, and at least you don't hear about him ravaging 14 yr olds after every show or anything.

No doubt being a bit judgemental here, of course, but that's what I get paid the big bucks to do...why else did LMA hire me if it wasn't to make the tough calls? Should this technical be rescinded? We'll have to watch film tonight and decide.

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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: May 18, 2009 12:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

Hmm,.. I know there are many things I have said while partaking a bit too much John Barleycorn, and today if I could, I would take them back. Perhaps that was the cause,.. or foolish bravado or a bit of both.
Whatever the case, I guess I wouldn't have him be any other way. I would however had liked it if he layed of enough to heal his organs (internal).
I wasn't going to shows when he was a part of the band. I am a Brent era dead head. So I had no chance to witness any of that. I can only listen to that era and envy guy's like you that were there. I think I was listening to Buddy Holly in 68-70.. lol. Wish my uncle was more of a dead head but that was not in the cards,.. I had to find them on my own.
Thanks for your insight and honesty.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: May 17, 2009 8:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

" we can share the women we can share the wine."

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Poster: stratocaster Date: May 17, 2009 7:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some More Polls From LL

do the Hurts Me Too from this show...classic

sorry I was thinking of the version from this show two nights earlier...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-05-16.sbd.unknown.7089.sbefail.shnf

under-rated Pig song...

This post was modified by stratocaster on 2009-05-17 14:31:14

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 16, 2009 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Spoony's Wonderful Adventure...

What's interesting is that last night I took a rare (for me) journey to 10/15/83 (my favorite 80's show). And Brent left the spoons at home for most of the show! lol. He even plays a regular good old acoustic piano during Playin'...and it sounds pretty good...but as far as note selection goes, Keith, in his prime, would still have blown him off the stage. I agree with what Earl says about 'veterans'... but that's frickin' sad to contemplate. Pig Lives!!!!